As I navigate through the waters of unscripted television, I always find it interesting to find out how other people do what they do. I have always welcomed wisdom from those more experienced than myself and treasure it when I hear it. I have worked with a bunch of amazing people and I thought others could benefit from hearing how they got started and how they continue to make the magic happen.
"The Real Stuff" is a series of interviews with people who make unscripted television - reality shows, documentaries, and everything in between. They may not be on the cover of Entertainment Weekly, but they make some of the best shows and movies on television. Listen to the practical side of the business and hear how to get jobs and keep them. If you want film theory, you're in the wrong place. If you want to hear how the real world of entertainment works, stick around. And if you don't like it, hey... it's free!
The Real Stuff - Episode #35: Alfonso Rosales
Alfonso has known what he’s wanted to do ever since high school. He even hosted and produced a daily tv show in his school. He makes tv. But he makes no bones about it. A bunch of the stuff he makes isn’t lofty or existential – it’s just tv. Whether he’s working for Travel Channel, Discovery or what have you, he’ll work on the show and do whatever it takes to get the job done.
But he doesn’t take his work lightly. He is very serious and dedicated to his work, and he feels that if he’s not learning and growing, then he should move up the ladder to a job that does challenge him. And experience has been his best teacher. He’s got a lot of good stories from the field that have taught him a lot of lessons – so please pay attention. You can learn from his experience… without having to do all the hard work.
WEBSITE: http://filmtv.tisch.nyu.edu/page/home.html
TAKE-AWAY: Experience is the best teacher.
The Real Stuff - Episode #34: "Another Town I Can't Go Back To" story
Sorry it's been a while since I posted a new episode of my podcast. A thousand apologies. My day job has required a lot of my time and effort and I haven't been able to post one. BUT, based on the popularity of my "Worst PA Ever" story in my series of Stories From The Road, I thought I might record another. And here it is! Enjoy! I hope you're all having a happy holiday season. There will be more stories and interviews to come!
The Real Stuff - Episode #33: Luke Poling
Luke is a filmmaker living and working in Boston, MA.
Luke Poling’s resume is about what you might expect from a filmmaker. He went to film school, got a job out of school as a PA and he absorbed wisdom and knowledge as he worked. Pretty soon he was producing a local Boston newscast – but it was then that he realized he was getting away from what he loved about this business in the first place. Making movies.
So Luke took a bunch of lesser-paying jobs so he could be around what he loved – features. He was able to work on a bunch in his hometown of Boston. Sooner or later he met a guy named Tom Bean, and being two like-minded guys they hit it off. And it’s a good thing too, because their first documentary collaboration is delightful. It really is a must-see for doc films. It’s called “Plimpton! Starring George Plimpton as Himself”. As you can imagine it’s about George Plimpton, and good fortune willing, you’ll be able to see it at a theatre near you soon.
Why don’t we just jump right into it, and listen to Luke keeping it real, giving us the straight poop, the skinny, the word on the street… let’s listen to Luke as he gives us the Real Stuff.
WEBSITE: www.plimptonmovie.com
TAKE-AWAY: “Stop talking, go make the movie.”
The Real Stuff - Episode #32: "The Worst PA Ever" Story
This is a special episode of my podcast. Instead of bringing you an interview with an amazing mover and shaker, I bring you a tale from the road. This is a story that really happened to me. I’ve been meaning to write it down and record it for an audience – and now finally here it is. Presented in the style of “This American Life.” It’s only about 20 minutes long, I hope you enjoy it.
I must take one moment to thank Pete Penebre who not only is a friend and former interviewee of this podcast, but he’s also an awesome sound engineer who helped me record and mix this story. Also, I need to thank the Budos Band – it’s their music you hear between the chapters. They are an awesome band from Staten Island, you must check them out.
Now without further ado, here’s The Real Stuff’s story entitled “The Worst PA Ever.”
The Real Stuff - Episode #31: Angie Brown
Angie is the head of casting and development for a production company in Washington, D.C.
You know those people who corner you at a party and tell you they’ve got a great idea for a reality show? And then they tell you and it’s a terrible idea. All of those people need to sit down with Angie and get a little schooling as to what makes for a good television show idea.
Not only does Angie have to figure out new shows, but she needs to find people to be in them. Hence development and casting.
Angie has worked on reality of all kinds. From Divorce Court, to haunted houses, to true crime - she’s seen much over the years. But at the end of the day, Angie sees development a lot like screenwriting: you do lots of work that usually doesn’t pay off, and if it does, you are not involved in the final project anyway. But it’s fun, creative and she enjoys it.
TAKE-AWAY: A past filled with diverse work experience is never a bad thing. It gives you insight into lots of different walks of life and helps you make tv shows.
The Real Stuff - Episode #30: Tyler Mathers
Tyler is a bit of a disgruntled associate producer. He’s been working in television on and off for the last fifteen some odd years and his various experiences have made him both love and hate it.
One might say that Tyler has done it all. You certainly can’t say that he hasn’t at least TRIED to do it all. Tyler has been a contestant on “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire,” he’s made a living playing on-line poker, he’s worked on feature films in Boston and he’s edited and produced at ESPN for years.
Tyler is a good example of the theory that you can’t get bogged down and make your entire life be about the job. You have to get out there and indulge your other interests. If you don’t, you’ll just consume yourself making “crappy tv.”
This is a FUN interview – it’s worth it to listen to it just for Tyler’s funny and not-so-legal stories.
Why don’t we just jump right into it, and listen to Tyler keeping it real, giving us the straight poop, the skinny, the word on the street… let’s listen to Tyler as he gives us the Real Stuff.
TAKE-AWAY: Show up on time and work pretty hard and you’ll be fine. Sometimes just those two things will get you your next gig.
The Real Stuff - Episode #29: Erica Ginsberg
Erica is a filmmaker and educator living and working in Washington DC.
Have you ever been working on a documentary project of your own and thought to yourself “man, no one is helping me make this film, I am doing this all on my own.” Well, Erica is here to tell you that SHE is going to help you. She and her whole foundation and network of filmmakers. That’s what they do. If you’ve got a film in the middle stages, and you need an audience, some input, some “fresh eyes” as they say – Erica can do that for you. Docs In Progress is a foundation in Silver Spring, MD that does exactly what its name connotes.
Erica left a comfortable job at the State Department to co-found and executive direct her foundation and it’s going like gang busters. They offer feedback, classes, support – all out of a little brick house in downtown Silver Spring. Erica makes her own projects too, but as you can imagine, over the years the foundation has demanded more and more of her time.
TAKE-AWAY: Sometimes success with a documentary film is simply finishing it.
SITES:
www.docsinprogress.org
http://www.avenueofaspirations.com/
https://www.nationalfilmnetwork.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=98
The Real Stuff - Episode #28: Ben Logan
Welcome to the Silver Docs episode of my podcast. I was able to catch a few docs this year and was lucky enough to grab a conversation with one of the filmmakers.
Ben Logan and Mandy Stein co-directed the first full doc about the Bad Brains – which is an afro-punk band from right here in D.C. It’s called “Bad Brains: A Band in D.C.” and it’s been getting great festival play at fests like SXSW and Tribeca, and it’s been getting critical acclaim as well. It’s been called a “must-see” for music fans and doc fans alike.
I couldn’t interview them both as they had their 1.5 year old daughter with them and Mandy had to keep down the fort – but you will hear Mandy and Leia in the background about half way through – remember, this is a lo-fi show. Ben was able to give me some of his time and I think you will find, he’s a great guy and an interesting filmmaker to boot.
TAKE-AWAY: When you start to feel uncomfortable around your subjects and that they don’t want you around, that’s when you have to stick it out and show them that you’re there for the long haul.
SITES:
www.badbrainsmovie.com
www.wired.com/underwire/2012/03/bad-brains-documentary-sxsw/
facebook.com/badbrainsdocumentary
twitter: @badbrainsmovie
The Real Stuff - Episode #27: John Gyovai
John is a documentary filmmaker living and working in Washington, D.C.
John has been following in his father’s footsteps as a filmmaker, but didn’t go to school to study film. He got a job in the business, and has simply learned along the way. But John has a loftier goal other than making good films. John’s goal is simple: change the world.
John doesn’t want to change the world with his films, he wants to teach the world how to make their own films so that everyone has a voice and tells their story. At least he keeps it realistic. And he has been doing a pretty good job of it – traveling around the world telling stories and teaching filmmaking.
TAKE-AWAY: Always be learning.
SITES:
www.skyhousefilms.com
www.mediaserveintl.org
The Real Stuff - Episode #26: Jason Osder
Jason is a documentary filmmaker and assistant professor of media and public affairs at The George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
As a filmmaker Jason has had to ask himself if he’s doing it for the stars, the hearts or the dollar signs. And he’s has lots of time to ponder that question, because it’s taken him 11 years to make his feature “Let the Fire Burn.” A film that will hopefully be done and screening by next year.
Jason admittedly has done it backwards – he’s been making his one big project for the better part of a decade, instead of warming up on a bunch of smaller projects along the way. But thankfully he’s met with success – he won the So You Think You Can Pitch contest at Reel Screen, got a grant from Sundance, and was invited to the IFP conference. He walked me through his process of making this film over the years and stressed the importance of the pitch.
TAKE-AWAY: Be honest with your filmmaking – not only honest with the audience, but honest with yourself.
SITES:
www.jasonosder.com
www.amigomediallc.com
www.finalcutproworkflows.com
www.gwu.edu/~smpa/faculty/JasonOsder.cfm
www.indiewire.com/article/hot-docs-12-8-perfect-pitches-from-the-hot-docs-forum
The Real Stuff - Episode #25: Ben Crosbie and Tessa Moran
Ben and Tessa are documentary filmmakers living and working in Washington, D.C.
Ben and Tessa are a husband and wife team that have a good eye for interesting topics. They’ve made a film about the barbershop down the street, and they made a film about a commune on the other side of the world. The most notable thing about their career together is that they’ve been making it up as they went along. They’re smart people, so when they had something they wanted to accomplish they sat down and formed a plan. Then they executed it. Production, post-production, distribution, etc. They have learned everything while making the journey.
This is a great interview because Ben and Tessa took me step by step through the making of their feature “Keeping The Kibbutz.” If you are planning on making a feature doc you should take notes. They worked really hard, and when the hard work was done they worked smart.
TAKE-AWAY: In the build-up to making your big doc, practice on a bunch of small ones – something in your city or maybe even right in your back yard.
SITES:
www.eidolonfilms.com
www.keepingthekibbutz.com
www.docsinprogress.org
The Real Stuff - Episode #24: Pete Penebre
Pete is an audio engineer living and working in Washington DC.
It’s taken me a while to interview an audio engineer, and for that, please forgive me. It is something I’ve been meaning to do for a while. And I definitely found the right guy for it. Pete is a consummate professional. He does things over and over, combs over the details for hours and hours until it’s right. That’s one of the major things audio engineers do: they find all the little imperfections and make them perfect. Even if it means putting in a lot of extra hours.
Pete began down this path as a teenager playing guitar, and has built his life around sound. Whether he’s making it or recording it. You see, Pete’s a musician and an engineer which makes him know sound inside and out. It’s taken him a while, but he’s finally put together his own studio, and together with his wife they run Burning Barn – a soup to nuts business that makes film and tv projects sound as great as they look.
TAKE-AWAY: Doing something for a paycheck, that’s a job; but doing the same thing in your free time, now that’s love.
Pete’s site: www.burningbarn.com
Curly & The Rocket (Pete's band): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmgPwu54TGY
GOOD NEWS! iTunes seems to be accepting our feed now. So, we have a page on iTunes where you can listen to, download or subscribe to this podcast. Feel free to check it out. Otherwise, you can always download the podcasts directly from this site.
The Real Stuff - Episode #23: Nina Gilden Seavey
Nina is a documentary filmmaker and the director of the Documentary Center at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
Nina is a 25-year veteran of the documentary world. Yes she’s a filmmaker, a term she does not throw around lightly, but she also started a school for studying the art and was the founding director of one of the most prestigious doc festivals in the country: Silver Docs.
She’s worked with some of the best in the business, but the thing that drives her the most is her family. Her secret is making films about subjects her kids are into. She figures if it’s a project that will take her away from them over the course of years, it should be something they can be excited about and be involved in. Pretty smart little trick. She also worked on the presidential campaign for George McGovern, but she can tell you all about that.
Take-away: You can’t just call yourself a filmmaker, you have to earn it.
Documentary Center site:
http://smpa.gwu.edu/doccenter/
Silver Docs:
http://silverdocs.com/
The Real Stuff - Episode #22: Roger Lay
Roger Lay is a documentary director and producer working in LA.
Roger Lay plays both sides of the fence – he works in scripted and unscripted. He has a love for science fiction which has led him to work on some really cool projects. His “day jobs” are stuff like working on Star Trek DVD extras, and his side projects are equally cool. From the way he talks about them, I honestly don’t think he’s worked on a project that didn’t tickle him in one way or another.
Whether it’s hiding in Ray Romano’s trunk with a camcorder or proving who originally came up with He-Man, Roger has had fun jobs from the day he got an internship out of film school. As a fan of all things sci-fi, I can honestly say Roger has a career I am jealous of, and I think you will be too.
Take-away: Surround yourself with a network of awesome and talented people who will support you and you them.
Lay's company: http://
Some of his doc projects:
Toy Masters: http://www.
95 Miles to Go: http://www.95milestogo.
The Table: http://thetable-movie.
The Real Stuff - Episode #21: Ray Foley
Ray is a documentary director and producer working in New York.
Most filmmakers find their thing. For some it's politics or foreign cultures. Ray's thing is music. He began working on footage of the Beatles, and since then he’s approached his career kind of like a jazz tune - he's been making it up as he goes along.
Ray has proved that if you combine ambition with the thing that you love, you can end up with a pretty good career rubbing elbows with rock stars and getting personal requests from the likes of Harry Belafonte. Ray has a background in a few different formats including radio, but he is a filmmaker through and through – and continues to be amused by the process.
The Real Stuff - Episode #20: Nichole Bardin
I can sum up Nichole in one word: driven. She has been driven to succeed since she was in high school and hasn’t lost a step yet. She’s the kind of person who looks at a haystack with a smile and says “let’s find that needle!” Which is good, because in development and casting you are playing a numbers game, and the odds are not in your favor. A majority of the projects you work hard and diligently on for months end up being canceled, not sold, or simply not panning out.
She describes her job as that of a matchmaker for tv networks. She’s there to offer a variety of possible dates, find the right choice and make a marriage live happily ever after. A job that sounds a lot like sales – probably because it is. Even Nichole says that the job she’s learned the most from is the job she had on Long Island selling gym memberships in her dad’s gym.
The Real Stuff - Episode #19: Ana Barredo
Ana is a self-made filmmaker. She didn’t study film in college – when she wanted to make a film she took a 6-week crash course, and then learned on the job. By job, I mean her own feature. With her own money. And then when she wanted to make another one, she taught herself editing and put it together that way. In short, she’s been making it up as she goes along. And it’s worked out fine so far.
Most recently, she’s directed a documentary feature called “The Table.” It’s a movie about people who make movies. It’s the other side of Hollywood – a group of filmmakers called the Table who meet every Thursday for support, networking and pie. This group is filled with self-starters so Ana felt right at home. It’s hitting the festival circuit now and “getting traction,” as Ana puts it. But at the end of the day, she says you need to be having fun. If you’re not having fun then what’s the point?
The Real Stuff - Episode #18: Ben Haslup
Ben is a producer and writer currently working in Washington DC.
Ben has been working in true crime documentary projects for the last couple of years. Besides teaching him a few tips about personal safety, it has taught him one main thing: story. Whether he’s watching “Hoarders,” writing an edit script for his show, or writing a script for one of his own films, Ben has learned story backwards and forwards.
Ben is also planning the big leap that lots of us flirt with but never do. He’s moving to LA in a couple months to write for Hollywood. Ben has been on and continues to live on both sides of the fence: fiction and non-fiction. But whether is comes from the headlines or from his imagination, the most important thing is still story.
The Real Stuff - Episode #17: Jed Rigney
Jed is a writer, director and producer living and working in Los Angeles.
Jed began his career writing and producing his own tv show. Before you get too impressed, I should tell you he was 19 and it was a public access show. He likens it to “Wayne’s World.” However high or low the production values, Jed made and learned from his show. In a way it was his own personal film school. After that he continued his “learn by doing” philosophy. He spent many years writing scripted comedy for an animated series, a web series and numerous shorts.
But wait, Darren. I thought this podcast was interviews with creators of unscripted projects. Well, as fate would have it, Jed’s most recent project is “Fools on the Hill,” a feature documentary film that he and a partner put together. Seeing as the film has a sense of humor about it, it is a good fit for Jed. Jed is proof that people can play both sides of the fence – scripted and unscripted. But the end advice of all of Jed’s experience is: “just do it.” No matter what it is. Because you never know what your next project will be or who will be watching.
The Real Stuff - Episode #16: Jerry Kolber
Jerry is a super nice guy, but he’s super busy too. He’s currently running a show for National Geographic, which keeps him tied up. So much so, that I had to do this interview in 3 sessions, as he could only give me about 20 minutes at a time. But it was worth it, I hope you’ll find.
Jerry has been producing television for a long time. He has the head of a tv producer, but the heart of a playwright. He recognizes that every production decision you make is a financial one, but he stresses the importance of story-telling above all else in his work.
He also has a great list of his top 10 production hints, tips and guidelines. So for those of you interns, PA’s and other newbies – this is the interview for you!! Listen and listen good. These 10 things will help you keep a job and move up the ranks. I would list them here, but then you wouldn’t listen to the interview!
The Real Stuff - Episode #15: Tim Gordon
I can’t believe I got this far without interviewing a DP, but judging from Tim’s input, I will be talking to many more of them in the future.
Tim got his start in feature films, learning his way up through grip and electric to camera. Tim knows his f-stops and color temps, but he wouldn’t have got this far if he didn’t have the head of a producer. According to Tim, at the end of the day, if all you have is a bunch of pretty pictures and no story, then you haven’t done your job.
Tim is also embarking on independently producing a scripted feature that he and a partner are adapting from a novel. Which is a huge undertaking, but Tim considers himself lucky to simply have found a good novel that hasn’t been optioned already!
Special thanks to www.getfilmjobs.com for listing this podcast as a resource on its site. Please check them out - they're a good resource for the film and tv community!
VISIT THEM AT WWW.GETFILMJOBS.COM
The Real Stuff - Episode #14: Chaz Shukat
Chaz is an editor of reality shows and documentary projects.
Chaz has been an editor in Miami, Los Angeles and now New York. He got his start making music videos before MTV came along – that was back when MTV played music videos. So he’s old school. He believes in learning to do one thing and do it really well, as opposed to having a little knowledge about lots of things.
Chaz knows so much about editing reality programming that he literally wrote the book on it. Seriously, he just wrote a book called “Editing Reality” and you can order it from his site: www.chazmoedit.com
I figure since he’s written a whole book on the subject, he was worth an hour of my time to interview. I hope you think so too.
The Real Stuff - Episode #13 - Jim Beard
Jim Beard is a producer and writer living and working in Washington, DC.
Jim Beard has worked in reality and documentary programming both in LA and DC for the last 12 years or so. He rode the internet bubble, made shows about animals, traveling, real estate and cupcakes, and he even created and Co-EP’d his own show – briefly. Jim has spent his share of time in the field, but according to him, where he really shines is in writing and post producing.
Jim has done a little bit of everything over the years but he admits the thing that’s taught him the most is an improv class he took at UCLA. Jim tells us the importance of discipline and reminds us that you always have to do something on the side for yourself, otherwise you’ll go crazy.
The Real Stuff - Episode #12: Paige Smith Lee
Paige is a documentary film editor and story producer.
Paige has been cutting shows, specials and movies for the last 20 years or so. After all these interviews I don’t know why it’s taken me this long to interview an editor. Anyone in television will tell you that editors have a lot of input into the final cut – especially in unscripted projects. The story can be told in many different ways and the editor can steer the ship in one direction or another. So be nice to them and know how they take their coffee.
Paige talks to me about being a rock star editor – literally. She says the rhythms of an edit are just like the rhythms of music. And with all Paige’s experience, she has learned to play the instrument just right. She’s been nominated for an Emmy and a bunch of other awards, but ultimately what makes her happy is simply working on a project where she’s proud of her work.
The Real Stuff - Episode #11: Conor McCarthy
Conor McCarthy has had an interesting career. He began out in LA in scripted tv, and has ended up in DC doing unscripted tv. I began this podcast originally so I could talk to and profile guys like Conor. He’s the kind of guy that has had a great history working on programming that we’ve all been watching for the last 10 years like “Modern Marvels” and “Surviving History”, but you’ll never hear his name or see his face on a magazine.
He also did something that most people would be reticent to do: he took two steps back in his career to change directions. An idea we all flirt with sometimes, but don’t do it for the myriad of reasons we all come up with. But he made the change, and has ridden it out very well.
